SULLIVAN - A lunchtime two-vehicle collision on Monday sent ambulances and other emergency personnel to what is becoming an all-too-familiar crash scene at Highway D and West Springfield Road. According to the driver of one of the vehicles involved, a Ford pickup may have failed to yield to oncoming traffic while crossing West Springfield onto southbound Hwy. D. What is known is that a small red pickup was westbound on Springfield Road and a dark green Ford pickup was apparently crossing southbound from the south outer road onto Hwy. D when the pickup impacted the Ford somewhere on the driver's side of the truck, sending it onto its side. Sullivan Fire personnel had to cut the roof off the Ford truck to extricate three passengers. A passenger in the red pickup said that the Ford truck just went through the intersection without stopping and there was no way to avoid the collision. The occupants of the Ford truck appeared to be elderly and at least one of the passengers, an elderly male, appeared to be unhurt. Missouri Baptist EMS and Sullivan Police responded to the scene, as well as Franklin County deputies who happened to be nearby when the accident occurred. The occupants of the red truck were not injured. The condition(s) of the others is unknown at this time.

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Rocco   | 216.229.80.xxx | 2009-02-12 14:00:29 I wish the Police on scene or somebody would clean up the streets better when they are done. 3 Days later and there is still broken glass and debris in this intersection and all over the shoulder. Where is that City Sweeper at when you need it?

sleekmagic   | 64.251.139.xxx | 2009-02-12 21:01:52 Any help on who to call to get all that broken glass cleaned up? It's only been there for a couple weeks now!

Bob3185   | 72.172.192.xxx | 2009-02-13 17:33:52 I hate to say I told you so, but how many more accidents at this ridiculously dangerous intersection are the city elders going to tolerate until they do something about it? The design of this interchange is so confusing, so complicated, so dumb that it's a wonder there isn't a daily fender bender or worse here. Maybe when someone (God forbid) dies there will be something done. I hope we don't have to wait until that happens.

katieandlou - Try this   | Registered | 2009-02-15 07:47:33 Call the S.P.D. at 468-8001 and report the glass in the road they then should contact the appropriate department. Although the road is maintained by MoDot and seeing MoDot out there would be a big surprise. The S.P.D. is paid by city taxes, etc. They are here for the citizens public safety I would guess that calling them would be a good start. P.S. But if you really want the glass cleaned up in a timely manner, GRAB A BROOM.

OLDMX4   | 216.229.86.xxx | 2009-02-15 18:18:09 Katie what time can I borrow your car? I would like to drive it around that intersection for awhile ..... I'm sure I can pick up most of the glass with YOUR TIRES! P.S. The Police travel through that intersection everyday, so I think they are already aware of it.

lucky1   | 216.229.77.xxx | 2009-02-16 11:28:01 The glass is still there because this is about the 4th accident in four weeks there! I think it was cleaned, just more glass has been added.

katieandlou - Old Mx   | Registered | 2009-02-16 16:11:56 Old mx: Keywords: " I think ".... If the police dept was to get an official complaint (such as a phone call.) Do we "think" that anyone has actually called the S.P.D.? They would probablly take care of the issue. But do you think that you will get anything accomplished by writing comments on this page? If I personally was driving through glass everyday with my vehicle I would have already called 468-8001 but for now since I don't drive by there at all I would just have to say thanks for the warning.

Bob3185 - re:   | 72.172.192.xxx | 2009-02-16 18:09:43 lucky1 wrote: The glass is still there because this is about the 4th accident in four weeks there! I think it was cleaned, just more glass has been added. Amen to that! Is somebody out there listening? This intersection was made to cause accidents. It should be obvious to anyone driving through it. I avoid it at all costs. Maybe if enough of us complain to the city something can be done. Of course, they'd probably wind up putting up another needless and time costing "red light" and consider the problem solved. Sigh

Bob3185   | 72.172.192.xxx | 2009-02-16 18:14:00 It amazes me how people can be so cruel. A person has a legitimate complaint about wreckage debris and glass littering the road and shoulder and the best someone can say is, GET A BROOM, or LEND ME YOUR CAR I CAN GET MOST OF IT UP WITH YOUR TIRES. Sheesh! Have a heart guys and place the blame directly where it belongs, with the city planners and the builders who actually constructed this idiotic intersection. I am going to city hall in the morning. I hope I'm not alone.

Bob3185   | 72.172.192.xxx | 2009-02-18 16:47:57 OK. I talked to the horse's mouth this morning. The City Administrator's office. After asking if they'd gotten many complaints about this intersection he said, "yes". And then he said they were going to most likely put up a 4 way stop at this intersection to prevent future accidents. Good. Now, the fact that prior to "improving" this area no stop signs were needed or wanted is another issue. Progress..Sigh

katieandlou - Good job Bob   | Registered | 2009-02-18 19:11:56 Way to go Bob! I hope they listen you also need to contact your alderman. On the above comments about being cruel I would think that it would be better described as "a little harsh" don't know about cruel.........

tdl1245   | 216.229.76.xxx | 2009-02-20 07:19:11 Just so people are aware the City has heard numerous complaints regarding the intersection and is working woth MODOT to try to safely improve it. Bearing this in mind, the design and construction falls solely on the shoulders of MODOT due to both roadways that intersect there belong to MODOT, not the City. The influence of the city is limited due to them not maintaing either roadway but they are doing all that they can.

Bob3185   | 72.172.192.xxx | 2009-02-21 11:56:39 the design and construction falls solely on the shoulders of MODOT not the City... That may be true, but the city is ultimately responsible for signing off on the design and helping to pay for these new intersections. If they had objections MODOT would have to listen to them. Apparently no one objected to a blueprint overview that gave no hint of the impending problems that would occur. And the city administrator most certainly has the clout to put up stop signs at this intersection. He may not do the actual work, MODOT will, but only due to his influence will it get done.

katieandlou   | Registered | 2009-02-21 15:06:43 The City Administrator nor the Mayor have the clout to put up any directional or traffic control signs on State Roadways or State Intersections. Do you think that the Mayor could change the speed limit or put a stop sign on I-44? They can ask but they can't tell. As far as the design goes, they may have the ability to give input but its their project. Kind of like your wife may ask you what she should wear and how it looks but your input really doesn't matter.

Bob3185   | 72.172.192.xxx | 2009-02-23 08:34:49 I beg to differ katie. The city administrator's office has the clout and the authority. Of course they won't actually stand out there and dig the holes for the new stop signs but they will direct (nicely) MODOT to do it and do it quickly. And the reason I got rid of my wife is she didn't listen either. lol

tdl1245   | 216.229.76.xxx | 2009-02-24 07:16:50 Katie you're exactly right concerning any signage along a state roadway. No sign, or a driveway for that matter, can be placed along a State maintained roadway without the permission of MODOT. A prime example of this is the speed limit being set at 55 on Highway 185 between the railroad bridge and city limits. The council has asked MODOT several times to reduce the speed. This is still an ongoing matter with MODOT with anticipation of a change coming soon.

Bob3185   | 72.172.192.xxx | 2009-03-06 06:43:03 The council has asked MODOT several times to reduce the speed. Why? The stretch south of the railroad bridge has nothing but a church and one private drive in that stretch. It's a highway with limited access. The ONLY intersection that is a thruway is E. Vine street. If you lower the speed limit to what..... 40 mph? Expect the city to increase their coffers by a monumental amount by handing out hundreds of tickets every day. That is, until it becomes abundantly clear that a lower speed limit is useless and not needed. And before you accuse me of being a speed maniac I seldom drive the speed limit on any highway but see no good reason to lower it here.

lucky1   | 216.229.77.xxx | 2009-03-06 12:24:25 ok its been 3 months and they are already tearing up the sidewalks and doing them again! what is this thing gonna look like in a year! Btw it is friday and 75, yesterday it was 60 and there is not one person working on the elmont road! Give me a break!! get this project completed!!!

katieandlou - Please Bob.   | Registered | 2009-03-08 09:28:42 Please Bob go sit in the Hilltop Lounge parking lot around 2:45 p.m. on any weekday. There is a big building that is just a few 100 yards away and for some reason around that time all these young adults who have just become of age to legally drive in the state of Missouri come out of the building and get into there vehicles and around 50% of them use this intersection that has a hill in the immediate view north. I guess the council is just trying to raise more revenue for future projects RIGHT??

Bob3185   | 72.172.192.xxx | 2009-03-11 07:40:18 I agree this cutoff at Vine Street that angles South to 185 is a dangerous intersection. I haven't however heard of any accidents there as of late. Lowering the speed limit isn't the answer. If there's a problem with young drivers hotrodding the area and it's done daily at a specific time, I'd say it's a good time for a patrol car to routinely scout the area. If it's done for a week or two the "offenders" will get the idea. But again, lowering the speed limit would be a useless solution.

katieandlou - Its' All About Speed!!!!   | Registered | 2009-03-11 19:32:41 I guess I am kinda biased considering that I use this intersection daily. From what I have experienced at that intersection is that it seems that everyone that knows the area does not come barreling down 185 (south) they realize that it is dangerous. But the day someone loses their life at this intersection because of the unaware motorists that was in the required speed limit we all wish that MODOT would have lowered the speed limit. I do recall several accidents there and do not recall any fatalities. I encourage people to take a look themselves and check it out. Pull down Vine St. to 185 turn north and imagine if someone actually went 55 mph over the hill and think about what their reaction time would be. Maybe add a truck with a trailer behind you.

tdl1245 - Facts on the issue   | 216.229.76.xxx | 2009-03-12 07:01:18 Other options regarding the intersection of Vine Street and Hwy 185 were considered and inquired about with MODOT. The areas of concern are of course the high school, the pre-school at Sullivan Christian Church, and the number of accidents on Highway 185 south beyond city limits that usually result in serious injuries or fatalities. School crossing signs are not an option for MODOT due to the high school parking lot not directly connecting to Hwy 185. The pre-school doesn't qualify as a school since it's not public. A yellow caution light at the intersection is not something that MODOT likes to do either. Reducing the speed limit is the best alternative. The problem isn't necessarily the high schoolers. Often times it's people unaware that it's not even there. There's also concern that if a motorist missed the 45mph speed limit sign going out of the city then they encounter the curves of Hwy 185 too fast.

mmk3973 - re: Facts on the issue   | 216.229.64.xxx | 2009-03-13 08:24:34 tdl1245 wrote: The problem isn't necessarily the high schoolers. Often times it's people unaware that it's not even there. I was going to say... as much as we all know that teenagers have lead feet, I don't think that's really the "problem" that we're talking about. It's an issue that they get out of school and drive to the intersection at 185, but good luck crossing 185 safely on a weekend, too. When I was learning to drive, I was told if you have to cross 185 at Glaser Rd that you better look both ways and punch it, or you're dead. Granted, the speed limit was 55 then, but I avoid that intersection at all costs.

Bob3185   | 72.172.192.xxx | 2009-03-13 19:41:31 I'll tell you what the real problem at the 185 South and E. Vine street is, people pulling out of E. Vine without looking both ways or worse, thinking that all cars heading South are turning onto E. Vine if the first one is, they seem to take for granted that they can then pull out when the first car reaches the intersection disregarding the ones following who may or may not be turning there. This has happened to me 3 times this past year and they always have this "deer in the headlights" What, Me at fault? look on their faces. Like I was the one who should have screeched to a halt on 185 to allow them access.

katieandlou - Equals...   | Registered | 2009-03-13 22:12:46 Dangerous intersection + Young adults= No one is to blame common sense rules. 185- Oak Grove 35 MPH 185- Sullivan 55 MPH 185- South of Sullivan to State Park 45MPH Makes alot of sense....... Once again correct me if I am wrong.!

Bob3185   | 72.172.192.xxx | 2009-03-14 06:20:22 185- Sullivan 55 MPH I think I agree with your speed suggestions except the middle one isn't real clear. All the speed limits you mention are in place and working. If, however you mean 185 S of Sullivan (at the railroad tracks) should be 45 mph again I have to disagree. It's not the speed limit of 55 mph in this straight stretch before the big hill that's a problem. As always, it's drivers not paying attention and/or doing something stupid. Making the speed limit five mph for these people wouldn't solve their problem. A lack of common sense isn't cured by speed limit signs.

tdl1245   | 216.229.76.xxx | 2009-03-14 17:14:42 Bob3185 I'm open to any suggestions regarding the resolution to traffic crashes at the intersection. What would you suggest? The overall goal is to eliminate the seriousness of crashes, or the probability of serious injury crashes, that do occur at Vine and Hwy 185. I agree that a reduced speed won't eliminate crashes, however a reduced speed will minimize the seriousness of them when they do. Again, I'm open to any suggestion that you might have.

Bob3185   | 72.172.192.xxx | 2009-03-17 06:10:18 I'm unaware of any excessive crashes at the Vine/185 intersection. I'm sure there have been a few fender benders there but "excessive"? Again, the close calls are always due to those exiting E. Vine street without looking and/or thinking all southbound vehicles are going to turn right there and the Vine St. driver pulling out into oncoming traffic. When will they ever learn

mmk3973 - re:   | 216.229.64.xxx | 2009-03-19 08:23:33 Bob3185 wrote: Again, the close calls are always due to those exiting E. Vine street without looking and/or thinking all southbound vehicles are going to turn right there and the Vine St. driver pulling out into oncoming traffic. When will they ever learn All generalizations are always false. How many times a day do you try to pull out of E Vine onto 185, Bob? Try it and let me know how it goes. You can look uphill all you want but it's very hard to see oncoming traffic when you do. AS FOR the story itself... I expected to see an update here, as I saw a story regarding the Hwy D intersection getting stop signs on that "other" news site/paper you're always talking about. :/

Bob3185   | 72.172.192.xxx | 2009-03-21 08:44:34 All generalizations are always false. How many times a day do you try to pull out of E Vine onto 185, Bob? First off, it wasn't a "generalization". I was stating a fact. At least 3 times in the last year when I was coming South on 185 someone has pulled out of E. Vine st. right into my path. There is an unobstructed view up 185. The usual reason is that the car(s) in front of me are turning onto Vine St. However driver's ed 101 makes it abundantly clear that you CANNOT pull into oncoming traffic unless you know it is safe to do so. In each instance it was not safe but they did it anyway. And yes, the view to the right down 185 is a limited view but it's an uphill road for the oncoming traffic. That means that if necessary the stopping time/distance will be shortened simply due to physics.

Bob3185   | 72.172.192.xxx | 2009-03-21 08:48:59 E. Vine Street at 185. I suggest placing a "Cross Traffic Does Not Stop" sigh and/or "Dangerous Intersection" sign on E. Vine St. at 185. Not that anyone will pay attention to them, but at least when an accident does happen the police and insurance companies can point to the offender as disobeying posted traffic signs. Maybe if they have to pay hefty car repairs once or twice and their insurance rates skyrocket they'll be more cautious.

mmk3973 - re:   | 216.229.80.xxx | 2009-03-21 13:54:19 Bob3185 wrote: At least 3 times in the last year when I was coming South on 185 someone has pulled out of E. Vine st. right into my path. Okay... somehow I don't think 3 times in a year makes your opinion a fact. HOWEVER, I do agree that people do whatever they want, but I think that's all over town. I hate driving in Sullivan. When I try to get anywhere in town to grab lunch or run errands, I usually come back to work frustrated and shaken. No one pays attention, it seems, and all of the changes and additions in the last year have made it horrible. And it is the human factor a lot of the time. Yea, everything is changed, but we've had stop signs in this town for how long?! Learn to use one. As for 185 and E Vine, maybe we could get MODOT out here to do a study of the intersection so they can make another mess. Maybe we should keep MODOT out. I'm not one to complain without offering an opinion on a solution. My biggest question about all this money we've spent on chan...

Bob3185   | 72.172.192.xxx | 2009-03-22 06:45:52 I had to laugh when I re-read the complaints. I'm as guilty as the next guy. But when mmk said he gets "frustrated and shaken" when driving thru Sullivan I smiled. Compared to St. Louis where I go to visit my grandson etc. it's a walk in the park. I can feel my hands grip the wheel tighter and tighter as I get closer and closer to St. Louis. When I get back to Sullivan I heave a sigh of relief. Again, taken into prespective we don't have a whole lot to complain about I guess. But that won't stop me from putting in my 2 cents worth.

mmk3973   | 216.229.64.xxx | 2009-03-23 09:40:32 I guess I'm too long winded. My question was why we didn't put in more stop lights to control traffic flow? Even St. Clair and Cuba have stoplights. Rolling through a stoplight isn't as easy as a stop sign. And yes, St. Louis is not fun driving, but at least you expect people to be thoughtless and hurried there. Get in, get out. That's my motto for driving in St. Louis. I avoid it as much as possible. The more crazy you drive in the city, the better. Personally, I live out here to avoid "city" driving. Guess I need to move farther out.

Bob3185   | 72.172.192.xxx | 2009-03-24 05:53:07 My question was why we didn't put in more stop lights to control traffic flow? I'm not sure I agree with more stoplights. They tend to make cars wait when there's no reason to (no cross traffic) and waste time and gas. I do think we need a traffic light at the 226 exit on I-44, at least part time. Ever sat on the exit ramp for 15 minutes while some truck tries to make a turn onto 185? It ain't pretty. Maybe a blinking light off hours and a full on traffic light during peak times might help.

HADAM   | 75.129.168.xxx | 2009-07-13 02:36:02 THIS IS NOT THE ONLY CRAZY STUPID INTERSECTION IN THIS TOWN! LET ME TELL U! I HAVE LIVED IN MANY TOWNS AND THE WAY THAT THIS ONE IS SET UP JUST AMAZES ME! ITS LIKE THEY PLAN FOR WRECKS! THE AMOUNT OF MONEY THEY ARE CHARGING US TO MAKE UNNESSESARY CHANGES TO THE ONCE SIMPLE ROADWAYS IS ABSOLUTELY ABSURD! THE ONLY GOOD ADDITION IS THE NEW OVERPASS! DO US A FAVOR SULLIVAN LEAVE OUR ELECTRIC BILLS AND ROADS ALONE! (EXCEPT PUTTING STOP LIGHTS AND SIGNS IN THE APPROPRIATE SPOTS) WE, THE CITIZENS OF SULLIVAN MAY GET USED TO THE SETUP BUT THE PEOPLE WHO DRIVE IN THIS TOWN WHO ARE FROM OUT OF TOWN THINK IT IS NUTS THE WAY IT IS SET UP! MY FATHER IS FROM OUTTA STATE AND HE ALMOST WRECKED UP THERE THE FIRST TIME HE DROVE IT! PLEASE FIX THIS PROBLEM AND HEY DO US ALL A FAVOR THIS TIME...TAKE IT OUT OF THE CITYS POCKET! NOT OURS

katieandlou - HADAM   | Registered | 2009-07-13 14:02:47 Hadam, this intersection has had stop signs put up by the state with their money months ago!! And remember the city's pockets is OUR money.

HADAM - KATIE AND LOU   | 75.134.88.xxx | 2009-07-16 00:28:42 YES MAAM I KNOW THIS WHAT I WAS GETTING AT WAS THAT THEY HAVE ENOUGH OF OUR TAX DOLLARS AND MONEY...WHY DO THEY THINK THEY HAVE TO SPIKE ELECTRIC BILLS TO PAY FOR FURTHER UPGRADES..LET ALONE ONES THAT WE DONT NEED! AND I AM AWARE OF STOP SIGNS..I WAS TALKIN ABOUT THE TOWN IN GENERAL...THE SIGNS ARE NOT STRATIGICALLY PLACES...ITS CONFUSING FOR THE AVERAGE PERSON

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